77 replies to this topic

[Energizer]

I support social groups! But! There are more important than that!

[.Ian]

If folks have ideas as to how social groups should or should not be implemented then http://community.inv...-social-groups/ is worth a look

[Energizer]

.Ian, on 18 March 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

If folks have ideas as to how social groups should or should not be implemented then http://community.inv...-social-groups/ is worth a look

They not worry! Have you ever had the experience that Matt has implemented something bad?

[Owdy]

STEWIE, on 18 March 2010 - 03:20 AM, said:

And a second thing that i would like to say is that i think it is a very bad idea  to show "you can not post" or "you can not start a new thread" buttons( when the user is not logedin),  who come up whith this idea?  

I agree. If person has no permission to post or something, just dont show buttons to post.

And i support social groups. Test SMF 2.0, they have good social groups feature. User can reguest group membership, they have group moderators etc.

[peaderfi]

Energizer, on 18 March 2010 - 09:57 AM, said:

They not worry! Have you ever had the experience that Matt has implemented something bad?

He was referring to the Social Groups app that I'm in the middle of developing (the link is a link to the development topic) and was suggesting that, if there are any specific ways in which people think Social Groups should (or should not) be implemented, the development topic would be a good place to talk about that sort of thing.

[Ditchmonkey]

Just because Vbulletin has social groups isn't a good reason that all forum software packages should have the same thing. I certainly don't consider social groups a core feature in the forums. Regarding the post buttons - it's not just guests that see those buttons. I have forums where the permissions prohibit members from starting new threads. I'd rather have that notification on the button clarifying permissions rather than getting a hundred messages about the button being missing in that forum.

[bfarber]

Ditchmonkey, on 18 March 2010 - 01:16 PM, said:

Regarding the post buttons - it's not just guests that see those buttons. I have forums where the permissions prohibit members from starting new threads. I'd rather have that notification on the button clarifying permissions rather than getting a hundred messages about the button being missing in that forum.

Truth be told, we've experimented with more than one setup. Hiding the buttons, showing the button but then showing an error when it's clicked (with the login form). Based on real world research, we've determined the best option is to show a message to the user where the button normally appears, explaining that they can't use the button.

For those that disagree, that's fine. This is why IPB is fully skinnable. You can remove the buttons in the skin if you don't want them to display.

[glorify]

I have social groups on my vb forum and even have a mod that allows your subscribed groups on the forum home.  They still get little use except for one and that's more of a good ol' boys club that really could be made into just a private forum.

[Tanax]

Ditchmonkey, on 18 March 2010 - 01:16 PM, said:

Just because Vbulletin has social groups isn't a good reason that all forum software packages should have the same thing. I certainly don't consider social groups a core feature in the forums. Regarding the post buttons - it's not just guests that see those buttons. I have forums where the permissions prohibit members from starting new threads. I'd rather have that notification on the button clarifying permissions rather than getting a hundred messages about the button being missing in that forum.

And in all fairness, let's reverse that. Just because vBulletin has Social Groups and we're on IPB doesn't mean that IPB shouldn't implement it aswell. And just because vBulletin implemented it in a bad way doesn't mean that IPB can't implement it in a better way.

I think people are too serious about the whole "IPB vs vB" thing. Just because one has something doesn't mean that the other can't implement it aswell.

[Razasharp]

glorify, on 18 March 2010 - 09:57 PM, said:

I have social groups on my vb forum and even have a mod that allows your subscribed groups on the forum home.  They still get little use except for one and that's more of a good ol' boys club that really could be made into just a private forum.

That sounds like a neat mod!

[bfarber]

Tanax, on 19 March 2010 - 07:08 AM, said:

And in all fairness, let's reverse that. Just because vBulletin has Social Groups and we're on IPB doesn't mean that IPB shouldn't implement it aswell. And just because vBulletin implemented it in a bad way doesn't mean that IPB can't implement it in a better way.

I think people are too serious about the whole "IPB vs vB" thing. Just because one has something doesn't mean that the other can't implement it aswell.

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

[The Geek]

bfarber, on 19 March 2010 - 09:14 AM, said:

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

I can see how that would get irritating - but if its any consolation you will see they are increasingly getting it in the ear

• Where is the FB connect like IPS
• Where is the developer communication like at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a gallery like they do at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a downloads system like they have at IPS?
• Why doesn't vB work (like IPS)?
• Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?

etc...

I would just flub it off and keep doing what you're doing - evaluate the merit of the idea and insert it into your priorities accordingly. That approach has gotten you where you are so makes sense to stick to it and ignore if and where the feature first originated.

[bfarber]

The Geek, on 19 March 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I can see how that would get irritating - but if its any consolation you will see they are increasingly getting it in the ear

• Where is the FB connect like IPS
• Where is the developer communication like at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a gallery like they do at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a downloads system like they have at IPS?
• Why doesn't vB work (like IPS)?
• Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?

etc...

I would just flub it off and keep doing what you're doing - evaluate the merit of the idea and insert it into your priorities accordingly. That approach has gotten you where you are so makes sense to stick to it and ignore if and where the feature first originated.

"Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?"

That just can't happen. There is only one Charles and we have him.

[Charles]

Lack of me: just another way vB users are deprived.

[glorify]

Razasharp, on 19 March 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

That sounds like a neat mod!

It's not bad.  At least the groups are visible.  But alas, the groups still aren't used much.  For example, I have an Xbox 360 group which is devoid of conversation but a thread about a 360 game in my electronics/games forum can go on and on.

[DarkGizmo]

texterted, on 18 March 2010 - 05:25 AM, said:

I had them on my old vB forum... no one used them!

This

[bfarber]

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

[Tanax]

bfarber, on 19 March 2010 - 09:14 AM, said:

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

Indeed, but that is just good according to me. That just means that more and more people are migrating over from vB to IPB. They obviously think you have the better software and customer support, they just feel that they want the feature X from their old vB board since they are accustomed to that feature. And let's be honest, that's just natural.

Anyhow, back to Social Groups. I feel that it's not really THAT of an important feature, even though if it would be awesome if it got added - as long as it's done waa - haaaaa - aaay differently than vB has.

[Ditchmonkey]

bfarber, on 19 March 2010 - 05:09 PM, said:

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

Social groups were nothing but a seldom-used curiosity on the Vbulletin bog board I ran. To clarify my previous post - I actually think it would make smart business sense for IPB to add groups just to cater to Vbulletin users that want to switch. But I certainly don't think that groups should be a considered a core feature of any given forum package. It's a forum afterall, not Facebook. I think that most forum packages are already going way to far down the road of the social network paradigm as it is. Friends, status updates etc etc - let's be honest I bet most sites use these features very little. And even those sites that are getting good traction with these social networking features - it's very likely that these features get so little use compared to the actual forum discussions that you have to wonder what the real value is anyway?

Forums are a way of organizing discussions, and by extension a social way of organizing data. IMO where ALL of the current software companies have gotten way off track is in trying to replicate the Facebook experience rather than focusing like a laser on on the core product: the forum as a social discussion and data organizing platform. IPB 3.1 is going to have a lot of crap that are bells and whistles that add little real value at the expense of features that should already be done: centralized search and tagging for all modules (forum, gallery, content, downloads and blog). Better integration of gallery and forum (the current system where a user is expected to post a photo in the gallery app, copy the embed code, and embed gallery photos in discussions one at a time is downright stone age). There are other things but this is already off topic enough.

So to return to the discussion at hand: I really don't care about social groups or any of these social features that replicate the Facebook experience and I believe all of this stuff should be either official add ons by IPB or third part products. There's no doubt in my mind that IPB is the current industry leader and I'll stick with them even though I don't like some of the directions they are taking.

[glorify]

bfarber, on 19 March 2010 - 05:09 PM, said:

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

Here are some interesting stats.

I have a total of 20 Social Groups.  Check them out here.  Like I said, one group gets used by about 4 members for site stuff pretty much on a daily basis.

Here are the 5 most recent reply dates of different social groups:
1 Day Ago
01-05-2010
11-15-2009
10-25-2009
08-15-2009

I'm not sure if people will use them or not if implemented correctly.  I don't think vb ever put any thought in them.

I have always maintained that IF group posts actually showed up in the 'New Posts' or 'Today's Posts' then members would use them.  It would clean up extra non needed forum categories and keep the main focus of your site on the topic you want.

Of course ideally, an admin would need a setting with 3 options:
Show All Group Posts in New Posts
Show Only Subscribed Group Posts in New Posts
Show No Group Posts in New Posts