Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

RTL incompatibilities are getting really annoying


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 06:26 AM

OK, I know you guys are not RTL native speakers but is RTL that mysterious that you can't tell if a search box is rendered on top of the forum's tabs under IE7? of course, I can report any issues I have to the tracker including those which if you fix for this browser, you gonna end up messing it all up in that browser. I think it's just about time to come up with a more efficient solution. because:

1- You can't just rely on the browser to overwrite properties from, say, ipb_styles with ipb_rtl. It won't always work under IE7

2- It's simply inefficient. Because your including entries that will never be used. But rather got thrown away by the user's browser in favor of those in ipb_rtl.

3- ipb_rtl is sandwiched between to JS includes which would increase loading time and causes the user drop down menu to stay open until the page finish loading.

we need more efficient ways for handling RTL and to be honest with you no one of us has a real bilingual forum in order to care about how an RTL website would look when switched back to LTR.

thank you

Enkidu
  • Ajouz ♞ and iAdi like this

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#2 Matt

Matt

    Chief Software Architect

  • IPS Management
  • 26,142 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 06:28 AM

Oh, how I wish the internet had a "Use RTL K THX" button. It doesn't, sadly so we have to rely on these CSS and JS tweaks.
  • Ajouz ♞ and .Ian like this

Matt Mecham
Invision Power Services, Inc.
"I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by."
-- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)


#3 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 06:39 AM

Oh, how I wish the internet had a "Use RTL K THX" button. It doesn't, sadly so we have to rely on these CSS and JS tweaks.


I know but let me put it this way*. vBulletin has a nice right to left test feature. I just checked it under Chrome, FireFox, IE7, and IE8. and you know what? the layout was the same. It's not magic of course but, let's say, better support.

the same thing goes for phpBB.
---------------------------------

* yeah it's the vbulletin card >_<
  • Ajouz ♞ likes this

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#4 bfarber

bfarber

    RBT-KS

  • IPS Management
  • 28,586 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:20 AM

All RTL issues being reported are being fixed, and relatively promptly. I'm not sure what more you would ask from us than to fix the issues that users find? There are bugs in the LTR skin too - it's how software development goes, I'm afraid.

As for HOW we attend to RTL, having a CSS file that overrides the primarily styles is EXACTLY the right way to handle it if you ask me. We can tailor the display to the RTL language, without having to maintain an entirely duplicated and secondary skin.
  • Ajouz ♞ and .Ian like this

Brandon Farber
Development Manager / Senior Support

If it sounds like fun, it's not allowed on the bus!

php5_zce_logo_new.gif     

Invision Power Services, Inc.


#5 Boris_

Boris_

    IPB Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:23 AM

Seriously? You think vBulletin's RTL support is good? Have a read of this: http://www.vbulletin...me-and-my-staff

(For those who can't read that, it's a 12 page topic in the vBulletin customer forums complaining about RTL support)
  • Matt, bfarber, Ajouz ♞ and 1 other like this

#6 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:59 AM

All RTL issues being reported are being fixed, and relatively promptly. I'm not sure what more you would ask from us than to fix the issues that users find? There are bugs in the LTR skin too - it's how software development goes, I'm afraid.

As for HOW we attend to RTL, having a CSS file that overrides the primarily styles is EXACTLY the right way to handle it if you ask me. We can tailor the display to the RTL language, without having to maintain an entirely duplicated and secondary skin.


not sure what you mean by "having a CSS file that overrides the primarily styles is EXACTLY the right way to handle it" because I don't think so.

sometimes you have a div (or whatever) with:

left: 10px; in ipb_styles
and then you have for the same div
right: 10px; in ibp_rtl

and you see IE7&6 smearing the div from right to left.
  • Ajouz ♞ likes this

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#7 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 11:05 AM

Seriously? You think vBulletin's RTL support is good? Have a read of this: http://www.vbulletin...me-and-my-staff

(For those who can't read that, it's a 12 page topic in the vBulletin customer forums complaining about RTL support)


so what exactly is your point here? You didn't think I'm advertising vB here, did you? I LOVE IPS. I really do. Otherwise, you wouldn't find me here. but the thing is: this is the IP.Board feedback forum. So, you tell me, does it have to be always positive feedback in the sort of: cheers you're the best...thank you guys...blah blah blah?
  • Ajouz ♞ likes this

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#8 Wolfie

Wolfie

    Don't get mad, get N*Raged!

  • +Clients
  • 12,500 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 11:10 AM

@Enkidu

All RTL issues being reported are being fixed, and relatively promptly. I'm not sure what more you would ask from us than to fix the issues that users find? There are bugs in the LTR skin too - it's how software development goes, I'm afraid.


I think that's a rather good point right there. You yourself said that you know they are not native to RTL, so they obviously rely on those who are to report the issues so that they can figure out a solution to the problem. There are even problems with LTR so it's not like it's anything biased against RTL layouts in any way. It could be worse though, there could be issues where it's TTB vs BBT (Top to Bottom/Bottom to Top), with LTR/RTL variances of each. THAT would be a nightmare. :)
  • Ajouz ♞ likes this

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Click here to browse or purchase IPS software. ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
n-raged.com
- Dacity.Com

♪ Me and you ♪
♪ a two-man crew ♪
♪ side by side we're unified ♪
♪ and we will never be divided ♪

Spoiler

CLICK HERE AND VOTE IP.BOARD AS BEST FORUM SOFTWARE FOR 2013!!!


#9 Charles

Charles

    Needs Life

  • IPS Management
  • 9,018 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 11:12 AM

We have an RTL skin category in the bug tracker. If you have any issues please submit them so they are taken can be fixed. Right now there are only 3 recently reported RTL bugs open. We are happy to fix things - just let us know.
  • Ajouz ♞ likes this

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
charles.warner@invisionpower.com
IPS Twitter news feed: @invisionps

 

Please do not PM me but feel free to contact me by email.

 

IPS 4 preview site ... Feel free to register your account now. We are approving several new accounts each day so, once you register, keep an eye out for activation email.


#10 Ajouz ♞

Ajouz ♞

    bypass_revision=1

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,083 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 11:33 AM

thanks for all replies ,
I want here to suggest one thing .
if it possible to copy English language here and set this copy as right to left language so we can test RTL here and reports bugs immediately otherwise every RTL user need to create a demo site to test it in his demo , or test it in his live site .

Maxx 2013: The Smart one 3.4.x
Last Updated Jun 14 2014 08:56 PM

free site intro?
Animated Site Intro Block 1.1.0
Last Updated Jul 06 2013 11:47 AM

 

 


في دمشق تطرز أسماء خيل العرب
من الجاهلية حتى القيامة أو بعدها
بخيوط الذهب
في دمشق تسير السماء على الطرق القديمة
حافية حافية
فما حاجة الشعراء الى الوحي و الوزن و القافية


#11 Wolfie

Wolfie

    Don't get mad, get N*Raged!

  • +Clients
  • 12,500 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 02:15 PM

thanks for all replies ,
I want here to suggest one thing .
if it possible to copy English language here and set this copy as right to left language so we can test RTL here and reports bugs immediately otherwise every RTL user need to create a demo site to test it in his demo , or test it in his live site .

You mean have the regular English, but then have an "English (RTL)", so people can pick the one they want to use?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Click here to browse or purchase IPS software. ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
n-raged.com
- Dacity.Com

♪ Me and you ♪
♪ a two-man crew ♪
♪ side by side we're unified ♪
♪ and we will never be divided ♪

Spoiler

CLICK HERE AND VOTE IP.BOARD AS BEST FORUM SOFTWARE FOR 2013!!!


#12 bfarber

bfarber

    RBT-KS

  • IPS Management
  • 28,586 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 02:21 PM

You mean have the regular English, but then have an "English (RTL)", so people can pick the one they want to use?


Yes, but not because someone would "want" to use it (English is not meant to be read RTL so it doesn't flow well), he's meaning so that they can look for and test RTL bugs here on the company forums. i.e. if we release a beta, the RTL users can look for bugs here before the final release.

Brandon Farber
Development Manager / Senior Support

If it sounds like fun, it's not allowed on the bus!

php5_zce_logo_new.gif     

Invision Power Services, Inc.


#13 Wolfie

Wolfie

    Don't get mad, get N*Raged!

  • +Clients
  • 12,500 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 02:22 PM

Yes, but not because someone would "want" to use it (English is not meant to be read RTL so it doesn't flow well), he's meaning so that they can look for and test RTL bugs here on the company forums. i.e. if we release a beta, the RTL users can look for bugs here before the final release.

I figured that's what he meant, was just wanting to clarify it to be sure I understood correctly.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Click here to browse or purchase IPS software. ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
n-raged.com
- Dacity.Com

♪ Me and you ♪
♪ a two-man crew ♪
♪ side by side we're unified ♪
♪ and we will never be divided ♪

Spoiler

CLICK HERE AND VOTE IP.BOARD AS BEST FORUM SOFTWARE FOR 2013!!!


#14 Ajouz ♞

Ajouz ♞

    bypass_revision=1

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,083 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 03:27 PM

yes , This is exactly what I mean .

Maxx 2013: The Smart one 3.4.x
Last Updated Jun 14 2014 08:56 PM

free site intro?
Animated Site Intro Block 1.1.0
Last Updated Jul 06 2013 11:47 AM

 

 


في دمشق تطرز أسماء خيل العرب
من الجاهلية حتى القيامة أو بعدها
بخيوط الذهب
في دمشق تسير السماء على الطرق القديمة
حافية حافية
فما حاجة الشعراء الى الوحي و الوزن و القافية


#15 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 05:51 PM

@Enkidu



I think that's a rather good point right there. You yourself said that you know they are not native to RTL, so they obviously rely on those who are to report the issues so that they can figure out a solution to the problem. There are even problems with LTR so it's not like it's anything biased against RTL layouts in any way. It could be worse though, there could be issues where it's TTB vs BBT (Top to Bottom/Bottom to Top), with LTR/RTL variances of each. THAT would be a nightmare. :)


You don't have to be a Rabbi to tell if the layout of a website written in Hebrew is broken or not. You see the type of "bugs" I'm talking about are BROWSER-SPECIFIC. For instance, you can simply compare between how the website renders under FF and under IE7.

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#16 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 05:56 PM

We have an RTL skin category in the bug tracker. If you have any issues please submit them so they are taken can be fixed. Right now there are only 3 recently reported RTL bugs open. We are happy to fix things - just let us know.


I know. I really know. What I'm asking here is to give more love to RTL. Sort of QA is you like. The whole point I'm trying to make here is: there many bugs in RTL under IE7 and it's getting really annoying doing all that. Whereas if you just set your English language pack to RTL and view the website in IE7, You gonna spot them yourself and it won't take you more than 5 minutes. Beside, you've already going to do that any way when I report the issue in order to confirm it.

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#17 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 05:57 PM

I figured that's what he meant, was just wanting to clarify it to be sure I understood correctly.


yeah I believe you. That was exactly your intention. :whistle:

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration


#18 Wolfie

Wolfie

    Don't get mad, get N*Raged!

  • +Clients
  • 12,500 posts

Posted 16 June 2010 - 06:04 PM

yeah I believe you. That was exactly your intention. :whistle:

Actually it was.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Click here to browse or purchase IPS software. ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
n-raged.com
- Dacity.Com

♪ Me and you ♪
♪ a two-man crew ♪
♪ side by side we're unified ♪
♪ and we will never be divided ♪

Spoiler

CLICK HERE AND VOTE IP.BOARD AS BEST FORUM SOFTWARE FOR 2013!!!


#19 Matt

Matt

    Chief Software Architect

  • IPS Management
  • 26,142 posts

Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:47 AM

We can add an RTL language, that's not a bad idea.

It sounds like most issues are to do with IE7 and IE6 - both browsers are now getting very old and there's a free update to IE8. I know that you can't force all your users to upgrade, but there's only so much we can do to ensure ancient browsers are able to view the latest technologies flawlessly.

I'd say that if IE7 can't decide what to do with a simple CSS override then it really needs to be beaten with a stick.

Matt Mecham
Invision Power Services, Inc.
"I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by."
-- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)


#20 Enkidu

Enkidu

    IP.Badass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:45 AM

We can add an RTL language, that's not a bad idea.

It sounds like most issues are to do with IE7 and IE6 - both browsers are now getting very old and there's a free update to IE8. I know that you can't force all your users to upgrade, but there's only so much we can do to ensure ancient browsers are able to view the latest technologies flawlessly.

I'd say that if IE7 can't decide what to do with a simple CSS override then it really needs to be beaten with a stick.


I can't force my users to do that. They would simply browse away to another forum which does support IE7.

See my other mods here

Latest: Adf.ly integration





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users