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So far, disappointed by how far Gallery 4 misses the mark


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Poll: Should there be tighter integration between IP.Gallery and IP.Board?

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Should it be easier to upload images to the gallery from inside the forum?

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Should we be able to tie in the Gallery comment system into the Forum as we can with Articles (IP.Content)?

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Should it be easier to place Images/Albums/Media in the Gallery into topics/posts in other Apps (forums/blogs)

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#1 Tigratrus

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:17 PM

Matt's statement in his Gallery Blog Manifest post:

Revolution
The "truth" of the application is very simple:

Upload some media into an album
View, discuss and share that media.


pretty much nailed my feelings, I totally agree with that goal, it should be dead easy to just upload images and share them. That's what the members want to do, and for the external social media, it seems to do that quite well...

BUT

Why does IP.Gallery 4.0 seem to almost ignore the ability to readily share IP.Gallery Images WITHIN the IPB platform?!

Seriously... The expectation seems to to be that members will:

1. Be chatting in the forums on a topic.
2. Decide they want to show that friend an image (or several that they have uploaded at different times before).
3. Leave the forums and go to the gallery
4. Upload the image(s)
5. After they upload the image they have to click on it to bring up that image's details
6. Drop down the "Share Image" button. Don't even see this as an option for an album, though I'm sure Matt means it to be there based on his BBCode test thread.
7. Copy the BBCode for that image

STOP HERE TO CONSIDER

A large % of community users don't know what BBCode is. They wouldn't have a clue that they need to copy/paste that in order to put their image in a forum topic/post.

8. They have to go Back to the forum and start typing their reply to their friend.
9. Paste in the BBCode (that they probably didn't even know to copy, since they likely don't know BBCode or what it does) for the image IF they didn't forget and copy something else in the mean time, like a piece of text from their friend's post that they wanted to call out (many folks copy paste instead of using reply). If they did copy something else they have to start over again digging into the Gallery, because it's not really easy to find your own images/albums at the moment.
10.Repeat steps 4 through 8 several more times to put in the other images they wanted to talk about (why not just use an album? Well, maybe several pictures are already uploaded, that's VERY common in our current system, upload once and reuse them to make your point in your forum posts).
11.Hopefully our member was patient enough to go through all these steps, and didn't just throw up their hands and upload the images as attachments, and they can now *finally* submit their post.
12. When the other members are reading the post, they are often trying to compare details in the images to what the image poster was talking about... Unfortunately, every time they click a linked image they leave the forums and can't see the rest of the post. :-(.

Do we REALLY think that many community members (keeping in mind that they're NOT forum admins and don't KNOW how to use all the features of the system, or what BBCode is) are actually going to go though all that?

So...

My question is: Why is uploading images and sharing them to Facebook, Twitter etc so much vastly easier than it is to upload them to IP.Gallery and share them within the IP.Board system itself?

What about integration with the forums, when will we be able to readily use images and albums in the gallery IN the forums to facilitate the conversation?

Having images added as attachments in forums posts because that's soooooo much easier than using the reusable, searchable images in the gallery... Well, as a community builder, I cry every time I see people upload a really good image as an attachment because I know it'll be buried in that thread and never show up in the search system, never be seen by anyone looking through the gallery for that sort of image. It's a nigh-criminal waste of sometimes priceless User Generated Content. With everyone carrying a smartphone, images are an ever increasing part of the conversation, and the gallery should be evolving to be more of a gestalt with the forums rather than a more or less separate, parallel system.

I really hope that this new release carries with it the ability to quickly and easily upload images to the gallery while in the forum post editor, and to use albums and images (via a quick popup that provides access to content you have uploaded to the gallery) in a forum post. It should be an easy, seamless experience. Images/media belong in the gallery not as attachments! :-)

Along the same lines, why is the commenting on images/albums happening in an isolated stove-piped environment? Why can't we tie it into the community conversation happening in the forums topics the way we can with comments on Articles (IP.Content)?! Shouldn't that be a major goal of integrating the IP apps? Bringing that user interaction TOGETHER instead of fragmenting it into multiple different systems where it's rarely seen? Shouldn't the goal be a community PLATFORM where everything ties in together, rather than separate parallel systems that share an authentication system?

In conclusion, I heartily support Matt's goals in reworking the Gallery, and much of it is looking wonderful! I greatly appreciate his efforts, and hope that he will read this feedback as what it is intended to be:

Constructive feedback intended to show how a bit of what appears to be "Curse of Knowledge" blindness, may be preventing an appreciation of how IP.Gallery falls sort in a real world setting. :) Of course, I may be totally wrong and Matt et al *totally* get the need for deeper integration, and we just haven't heard about how they are going to tackle it yet! ;)

James

#2 .Ian

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 07:16 PM

I would agree on members not having a clue about BBcode - I would say it is in 90%+ mark.

I cannot comment on Gallery 4 as I have not yet run it, or given it a decent try out.

But it always needs to be as simple as possible.

For example, I was asked today by someone who is an ordinary user on how to upload pictures from his mobile phone. I will be honest and say I am not even sure myself (I never use the camera on my phone) - but suffice to say it should always be quick and simple, and the forums and gallery should work together (probably from the forum side)
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#3 Ditchmonkey

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:18 PM

Yes this "rewrite" should have have focused on better suite integration. Instead we get no improved integration and a bunch of new features nobody asked for. And to make it worse, the disk space overhead will double with version 4. I'm pretty much shocked and angered by this iteration of gallery and i'm not sure wtf i'm going to do. Save my money and migrate the whole installation to something else if this keeps up.
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#4 Jυra

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:24 PM

I don't even know yet if it'll work on my forum's fixed width and there's still no tagging.
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#5 Ryan H.

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 09:08 PM

A quote I ran across on a blog some years ago of some potential relevance here...

"If you have profound knowledge of the cloud of problems around programming, of the higher level problems you're trying to solve, you'll do a better job programming. This is obvious, and explains why the best programs are always the ones programmers write for themselves, eg. emacs, Google, VisicIlc, etc. And it conversely explains why so many programs are so uninspired, too: if you'll never use the feature you're writing, you're not going to imbue it with brilliance, because the brilliance will never occur to you."
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#6 Ditchmonkey

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

A quote I ran across on a blog some years ago of some potential relevance here...

"If you have profound knowledge of the cloud of problems around programming, of the higher level problems you're trying to solve, you'll do a better job programming. This is obvious, and explains why the best programs are always the ones programmers write for themselves, eg. emacs, Google, VisicIlc, etc. And it conversely explains why so many programs are so uninspired, too: if you'll never use the feature you're writing, you're not going to imbue it with brilliance, because the brilliance will never occur to you."
- Moishe Lettvin



Fantastic and spot on.
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#7 Mat B

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:37 PM

For example, I was asked today by someone who is an ordinary user on how to upload pictures from his mobile phone. I will be honest and say I am not even sure myself (I never use the camera on my phone) - but suffice to say it should always be quick and simple, and the forums and gallery should work together (probably from the forum side)


It's pretty seamless to upload - to Gallery even - from an iPhone using the app, and I believe Android is in the works and should be much the same. WP7 is also being considered, and should be again very similar. In terms of non-smartphones, I'm unsure if we have any conclusive plans, but I'm sure if it were requested and there were support for it, we could make it happen provided the phones themselves can support it (some can't).
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#8 Axel Wers

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:01 AM

Should we be able to tie in the Gallery comment system into the Forum as we can with Articles (IP.Content)?


This is useless. Why to have the same things twice?

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Axel Wers, on 28 Nov 2012 - 7:22 PM, said:
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#9 Lewis P

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:50 AM

What really needs to happen is a change in IP.Board 3.2, so that on the attachments form, there is a link to "Open Gallery Uploads", where you can select your uploaded images in the gallery, and add them into a post just like a normal attachment.

Similarly, when you upload an image file to a post, you should be able to hit a checkbox to "Add to Gallery".

#10 .Ian

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:14 AM

It's pretty seamless to upload - to Gallery even - from an iPhone using the app, and I believe Android is in the works and should be much the same. WP7 is also being considered, and should be again very similar. In terms of non-smartphones, I'm unsure if we have any conclusive plans, but I'm sure if it were requested and there were support for it, we could make it happen provided the phones themselves can support it (some can't).



Thanks.

But then the user will say 'why do I have to go into another app to upload photos to my album - surely the gallery is just that a gallery for viewing. I can post a blog from my post, why can't I upload to my album?'

And I have to agree. IP.Board is the central part of the site and it is where people will join, so even if the other apps are excellent and present the data in a great manner, if the average user cannot upload and update those items easily and comfortably without learning a new product, then it is all worthless. Sure IPS will sell many apps because it looks great when there is data there, but unless the products are used they become dormant.

Users are lazy and want need a helping hand to move them in the right direction.




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#11 LeadCrow

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:55 AM

It should be made much easier to upload pictures, and to specific or global sections as well (its a pain to go through multiple screens for every single picture, or need moving pics around after they got submitted. Especially if you uploaded a large bulk from the acp).

Being able to insert locally stored media into IPC (especially for the article's thumbnail image) would be very welcome.
The rest to me is a non-issue. Anyone who wants to share can readily do so, if they were intelligent enough to know how to upload pictures and browse the gallery.


What really needs to happen is a change in IP.Board 3.2, so that on the attachments form, there is a link to "Open Gallery Uploads", where you can select your uploaded images in the gallery, and add them into a post just like a normal attachment.

Similarly, when you upload an image file to a post, you should be able to hit a checkbox to "Add to Gallery".

Great idea.
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#12 3DKiwi

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:57 PM

Have to say I'm now luke warm about Gallery 4 and won't be rushing to upgrade. I can't see my members liking the square thumbnails at all plus the focus now appears to be on albums rather than new images. I'll wait and let others upgrade and see how their members respond first. Maybe IPS will get the message and rethink things for 4.0.1?

I also hate the VNC for the gallery. What a complete waste of space. Don't know what I'm talking about, do a View Content and select the gallery. The images are display one by one vertically. Terrible!!

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#13 AlexJ

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:52 PM

Same here.

Default skin is horrible IMO.

1. Too much white space.

Attached File  default skin.png   575.65KB   136 downloads

Sure my screen is 24 inch but then I checked another gallery/picture sharing website. There layout works perfectly well.

Attached File  megapix.png   1.1MB   129 downloads

http://www.megapix.com/

See above. White space is on left and right and not in middle of the pages.

2. Sub album thumbnails are so small that users can have hard time clicking on it.

3. I agree with what 3DWiki said about VNC and Gallery.

4. I don't see any images of previous and next navigation links.

referral-0105609001340182954.jpg


#14 mikesound

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:04 PM

about time that invision come up with a single site wide core image handling method that all applications could use

#15 Matt

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:19 PM

We at IPS have discussed a central upload system for a long time now and it's something we want to do but it is something that IPB needs to implement, not Gallery. To do this in Gallery would be coding at the wrong end of the stick.

Remember that you are only seeing a very early Beta release and Gallry 4 is the first release of this new direction. It will mature over the next few releases and you dont have to upgrade immediately if you are content eith the current version.

I don't think it's fair to say Gallery 4 is shortsighted but then I can envision it a few more releases down the road.

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#16 Matt

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:24 PM

A quote I ran across on a blog some years ago of some potential relevance here...

"If you have profound knowledge of the cloud of problems around programming, of the higher level problems you're trying to solve, you'll do a better job programming. This is obvious, and explains why the best programs are always the ones programmers write for themselves, eg. emacs, Google, VisicIlc, etc. And it conversely explains why so many programs are so uninspired, too: if you'll never use the feature you're writing, you're not going to imbue it with brilliance, because the brilliance will never occur to you."
- Moishe Lettvin


I use Flickr and Facebook albums almost daily. I'm a huge photo sharer and I have looked at a lot of Gallery systems when writing Gallery 4.

Square thumbs and watermarked images aside, there can be no argument that the new Gallery is a thousand times easier to use than the current version. My aim was to make it as simple as possible to share images and as far as I can in Gallery, I believe I have fulfilled that goal.

Matt Mecham
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#17 Matt

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:27 PM

Also wanted to point out that you dont need to learn BBCode. Just paste an album or image URL into a post and it auto parses.

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#18 Matt

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:30 PM

Yes this "rewrite" should have have focused on better suite integration. Instead we get no improved integration and a bunch of new features nobody asked for. And to make it worse, the disk space overhead will double with version 4. I'm pretty much shocked and angered by this iteration of gallery and i'm not sure wtf i'm going to do. Save my money and migrate the whole installation to something else if this keeps up.


And for the third or fourth time, Gallery 4 will not double your disk usage. If you elect to watermark your images it will store a cooy of the original so you can remove or change the watermark in the future. Please understand this.

Matt Mecham
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#19 Ryan H.

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 07:00 PM

I use Flickr and Facebook albums almost daily. I'm a huge photo sharer and I have looked at a lot of Gallery systems when writing Gallery 4.

Square thumbs and watermarked images aside, there can be no argument that the new Gallery is a thousand times easier to use than the current version. My aim was to make it as simple as possible to share images and as far as I can in Gallery, I believe I have fulfilled that goal.

That's fair. And I don't use gallery systems, so I have no real place critiquing what you're trying to do.

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#20 Ditchmonkey

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 07:23 PM

And for the third or fourth time, Gallery 4 will not double your disk usage. If you elect to watermark your images it will store a cooy of the original so you can remove or change the watermark in the future. Please understand this.



And for the tenth time, if I want to watermark images (which i do), then the disk overhead will double going forward. What part about this are you not understanding?

Seriously man, don't tell me "for the third or fourth time" as if you have resolved the issue. Gallery 4 is going to REQUIRE two copies of an image if I want one of the most basic gallery features - watermarking. No other software forces site administrators to make such a choice.
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