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Suggestion: Chat while you browse forum (1 window, not 2)


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#21 ADKGamers

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:58 PM

See, this is why I wish IP.Chat had a huge upgrade...people are having to divert to other chat applications. I may end up doing the same and I would rather not.


Exactly, I would LOVE for IP.Chat to do things like this so I don't have to go elsewhere, and that way it's already integrated and everything. Plus the guys here would be getting the money instead :smile:


Arrow chat looks pretty sweet though

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#22 bfarber

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

To avoid all (inactive) users to stay logged in 24/7 there could be a setting to kick those inactive users after x amount of time of inactivity, to open for new active users, and an option for "kicked" inactive users to reconnect whenever they are "back at keyboard". Some jquery smooth soft kick and reconnect. This way we stop people who left their computers for hours with invisionpower forums tab open from taking all chat user slots.


That doesn't solve the issue. If you have a 20 user chat package and have 200 users on your site (consider guests, search engine spiders, other bots such as Facebook, registered users, etc.), 180 of those users are going to see a chat box that indicates the room is full.

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#23 ørret

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:44 PM

It doesn't mean 180 of those people want to join the chat. Just look at this site, as for now (when I'm writing this), 562 users online, 0 in chat. Something went really wrong with IP.Chat and i guess IPS officials are fully aware that something needs to be done. It's been like this months after months, great user activity, no chat activity. It's a huge fail as I see it, but it doesn't need to stay like this. Back to your case, being site owner seeing a full chat, just encourage him/her to buy larger chat deals. It means greater income for IPS. I can see the issue, 20 people clicking (or hit-and-run) chat, everyone is inactive, preventing active users from joining. I mean, an inactivity limit could stop this right? No one wants to join an empty chat room, and inactive users will most likely "drag" active users to the chat. Also as pointed out earlier, I don't think people do much "hit-and-run" by purpose, as it is now they cannot stay on chat and browse forum at the same time without having to open a new tab or window. If these people could browse forum while also writing on chat, chat would thrive more. I doubt we would have an issue with inactive users.

Lets take this scenario: A user is writing a topic, a large post (takes him 10 minutes to write), while writing the topic, he is also active in chat and awaits a reply there. He gets a reply and goes straight over to chat box to respond back. After this he goes back to finishing up his thread, still following the ongoing conversation in chat - all happening on the same page, no extra tabs or windows. That's where we should be in 2012.
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#24 ADKGamers

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:56 AM

Why couldn't you have it to where your friends list matches with your friends list on the site, and then there is a "chat room" tab that shows the amount of users in the chat room and it allows people to click on it to "join" the chat room. And then you can also add friends to you friends on the site via the chat bar as well as the current way that you have it.


I think this would be a way that people would purchase bigger licenses for chat, because it's easily integrated into their site and it's right there for people to see already, and can see if their friends are online, etc. . .

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#25 bfarber

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:31 AM

It doesn't mean 180 of those people want to join the chat. Just look at this site, as for now (when I'm writing this), 562 users online, 0 in chat. Something went really wrong with IP.Chat and i guess IPS officials are fully aware that something needs to be done. It's been like this months after months, great user activity, no chat activity. It's a huge fail as I see it, but it doesn't need to stay like this. Back to your case, being site owner seeing a full chat, just encourage him/her to buy larger chat deals. It means greater income for IPS. I can see the issue, 20 people clicking (or hit-and-run) chat, everyone is inactive, preventing active users from joining. I mean, an inactivity limit could stop this right? No one wants to join an empty chat room, and inactive users will most likely "drag" active users to the chat. Also as pointed out earlier, I don't think people do much "hit-and-run" by purpose, as it is now they cannot stay on chat and browse forum at the same time without having to open a new tab or window. If these people could browse forum while also writing on chat, chat would thrive more. I doubt we would have an issue with inactive users.

Lets take this scenario: A user is writing a topic, a large post (takes him 10 minutes to write), while writing the topic, he is also active in chat and awaits a reply there. He gets a reply and goes straight over to chat box to respond back. After this he goes back to finishing up his thread, still following the ongoing conversation in chat - all happening on the same page, no extra tabs or windows. That's where we should be in 2012.


So when you say put the chat window on every page, you don't mean load the chat room itself off the bat. You mean show an area for the chat with a "click to join" button?

Because otherwise if the chat room were TRULY embedded on every page and automatically launched, this isn't about a user doing a "hit and run". Once the page loaded, the javascript would add the user to the chat room, whether they intended to use it or not, at which point an active user connection would be used up. Simply loading any web page that had the chat room embedded would cause an active slot to be used up, and of course that means if 20 users loaded a page on your site, the other 180 would see a room full message. Removing inactive users can be done, but there has to be a delay (if I haven't chatted in 10 seconds, does that make me inactive?), so that doesn't solve the issue.

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#26 ørret

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:59 AM

I'm not a coder so I wouldn't know how doable this is, it's just an idea. A "click to join" button without having to refresh or leave current page would do. Chat doesn't need to stay open 24/7 but it would be great to have the opportunity of reconnecting from current page without leaving it. Inactivity could be set to something like 5 minutes, so when you get disconnected, and are back at keyboard, you will see a message that you're disconnected due to inactivity and a button asking you if you want to reconnect. If all chat slots are full, you'll get a message indicating reconnecting is not possible atm and an indicator showing how many slots are taken/available (something similar to what you have in upper right corner of chat tab now when people are connected). If those indicators could somehow be made "real-time" then the user will be able to reconnect when he sees a free slot.

This means if you get disconnected, you're not using up any slot (obviously), and you can click hundred of pages, but you still need to reconnect before you can use the chat on those hundred pages, else you will just keep seeing the "reconnect button" on every page. People who don't want chat on all pages, should of course have the option to totally remove the chat. Also, the 5 minutes limit, is just a suggestion for the "embedded chat" or whatever, not the main official chat page. People using chat through the official chat page, shouldn't be kicked after 5 minutes, i mean these people are on chat because they only want to chat (most likely). I personally think that you will find more people who wants to "browse forum and stay active on chat" at the same time, that those "dedicated just to the chat". Efficiency is the key in a busy world. I could just open a new tab/window, but lets face it it won't happen, because then I would have to stop doing whatever I'm doing in the other tab... I'm hoping I understood and answered your questions, if not please excuse me.

#27 miraclesun

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:57 AM

If completely re-doing the chat so it ends up like a bar isn't even possible or not something IPS thinks of doing, there are still 3 things that are lacking:
  • Video chat
  • Rooms within the chat
  • An alert prompting people when they are about to close the tab/window - "Are you sure you want to leave the chat?"

For a one time purchase of $45, arrowchat has video chat, real-time status, group chat, and more.
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#28 ørret

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:08 PM

I personally do not like chat bars, like arrowchat and facebook have. However, what I like about these chat solutions is the ability to stay online on chat regardless of what page you're on. Arrowchat seems like a ripoff of facebook, or maybe the other way around, I don't know... What I had in mind, was something like the Shoutbox, just instead with IP.Chat and it's functionality.
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#29 Positive

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

I would like to see the chat working as chatroll ..... I'm paying for their service now, but i rather put my money in the pockets of IP

#30 miraclesun

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

I would like to see the chat working as chatroll ..... I'm paying for their service now, but i rather put my money in the pockets of IP

Even the free version of chatroll has more chat features than IP.Chat...

Chatroll makes it easy to transform videos, websites and apps with real-time social chat. Perfect for interviews, Q&A's, webinars, podcasts, streaming video events, group messaging and more.



#31 The Old Man

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

The Shoutbox has a global hook that allows members to continue chatting whilst browsing the forums and posting. However I had to disable even though I have about 3-4 people online at once as it was such a resource hog (according to IPS support staff) and it slowed down my site.

#32 kotaco

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 04:02 AM

The Shoutbox has a global hook that allows members to continue chatting whilst browsing the forums and posting. However I had to disable even though I have about 3-4 people online at once as it was such a resource hog (according to IPS support staff) and it slowed down my site.



They just want you to break down and buy one their chat packages :P
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#33 7Bya9K&Q

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:05 AM

They just want you to break down and buy one their chat packages :tongue:

They just want you to break down and buy one their chat packages :tongue:

LOL. It wouldn't surprise me.

But on a serious note, I figure this would be very resource intensive and probably rather complicated, but it is a really good idea and I would love to see something like this in the future at some point.

#34 bfarber

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:45 AM

They just want you to break down and buy one their chat packages :tongue:


This is not true.

Setting up a hook that effectively floods your server with requests every few seconds is going to be a resource hog. Regardless of who writes it. This is why IP.Chat does not include such a hook.
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#35 7Bya9K&Q

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

This is not true.

Setting up a hook that effectively floods your server with requests every few seconds is going to be a resource hog. Regardless of who writes it. This is why IP.Chat does not include such a hook.

I assume the only way to get around the lag would be to upgrade the host to a faster system correct?

#36 bfarber

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

There are too many variables to answer that directly. If you wanted some sort of setup where you have a live chat on every page, your best bet is to host the live chat on a separate server dedicated for that purpose, and then to ensure that dedicated server has the resources available to handle the traffic it will get (if you have a site with only 10 users online at a time, it wouldn't need much, but for a large site you might need a cluster of servers just to serve the chat system).

Like I said, there's no direct single answer to that question. It depends on how active the site is, basically.
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#37 7Bya9K&Q

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

There are too many variables to answer that directly. If you wanted some sort of setup where you have a live chat on every page, your best bet is to host the live chat on a separate server dedicated for that purpose, and then to ensure that dedicated server has the resources available to handle the traffic it will get (if you have a site with only 10 users online at a time, it wouldn't need much, but for a large site you might need a cluster of servers just to serve the chat system).

Like I said, there's no direct single answer to that question. It depends on how active the site is, basically.

I see what you mean regardless. My board is small-medium traffic so it wouldn't be too resource intensive. But I see what you mean about it being a better idea to host it elsewhere.

#38 Rod.

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:49 AM

How about just having a small preview window of what's going on in chat, so that if someone is browsing the forum and they see an interesting topic, they can click "Join Conversation" and it will then bring them into chat?

If you implement this feature, I will buy chat. The only reason I won't, is because there is no accountability. Too often conversations go awry in chat, because it's like a back room. All it takes is someone to stumble in on a conversation that has gone way south. Having a live preview window of chat posted on the forum page will certainly enforce code of conduct, as it's no longer a private room. Plus, it lets everyone know what conversation is taking place should they choose to join.

I run a busy forum, and if a preview window displayed what's going on in chat on the main forum (kind of like shoutbox, but to reply you'd have to join the conversation), it would add accountability to the chatroom members.

Doing it this way would not use a user license either, since it's just one way preview. Also won't bog down the server.

Please consider it. Thanks...

#39 bfarber

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

Having a live preview would require the same circumstances. Every page load would have to ping the chat server (which would force the user to join the room) to retrieve the messages. A live preview as in a snapshot might only use one request on the page instead of multiple, but it's still going to require resources and count as a user in the room. You can't have 80 people browsing your site pinging the chat server and not have this accounted for, I'm afraid.

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#40 Rod.

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:39 PM

How does shout box accomplish this?




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