Jump to content


Photo

Blog 2.5 - What went wrong? Was it tested?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
18 replies to this topic

#1 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:31 AM

Sorry to be posting this really but I have to say that the 2.5 version of the blog is a bit of a mess, and seems to be that it couldn't have gone through any testing prior to release.

New features such as the blog post view count simply don't work - how can a brand new feature which counts views on entries make it to a final (apparently stable) release and not actually count views?

Creating blogs is broken if you don't allow linked blogs on your site as it removes the drop down menu in the create blog form and stops it submitting properly.

The tagging system doesn't work properly, and if you're using sphinx actually breaks the tag search system across the entire suite.

The dynamic header system was removed without a single mention about it in any release notes, and I could go on - the number of pretty major bugs in the tracker says it all.

So does anyone at Invision want to come clean? Was it released in error (that may explain why it didn't appear on the company forums for 2 weeks after release)? Was it tested at all? What went wrong?

I'd really like to know as there's something really not right about the release of a commercial product to paying customers in the state it's in right now..

#2 Charles

Charles

    Needs Life

  • IPS Management
  • 9,040 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:34 AM

Actually it was tested by both our internal QA team and was also posted to our Contributors for over a week. Unfortunately testing is not an exact science as much as IPS staff and volunteer QA clients try very hard :)

You may wish to check the bug tracker http://community.inv...oject-1-ipblog/ to see if your specific issues are resolved in the upcoming maintenance release.

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
charles.warner@invisionpower.com

 

Please do not PM me but feel free to contact me by email.


#3 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:38 AM

Seriously Charles - how much testing could have been done if a brand new feature which simply counts views on blog entries doesn't work and no-one noticed? How much testing could have been done if the tagging system which was another major change clearly doesn't work?

Why wasn't it released on this site first? I thought that was a policy for new releases as you've said yourself it often shows up bugs not found previously?

With the best will in the world, I cannot see the justification for it's release in the state it's in - it would just about be ok if it were free, but it's not - paying customers should not be treated as unpaid beta testers on apparently stable releases and in this instance I think we are.

#4 MadMcardle

MadMcardle

    Needs Hobby

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,543 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:57 AM

Seriously Charles - how much testing could have been done if a brand new feature which simply counts views on blog entries doesn't work and no-one noticed? How much testing could have been done if the tagging system which was another major change clearly doesn't work?

Why wasn't it released on this site first? I thought that was a policy for new releases as you've said yourself it often shows up bugs not found previously?

With the best will in the world, I cannot see the justification for it's release in the state it's in - it would just about be ok if it were free, but it's not - paying customers should not be treated as unpaid beta testers on apparently stable releases and in this instance I think we are.


When something is being used live it is very different to using it on a closed test board is what Charles is saying here. IPS respects those who report the bugs and they are all fixed as they are submitted.

Charles has said above a maintenance release will be given so your best bet would be to submit all reports to the tracker now and they can hopefully make it into the next release.

Signature_zpsf0723ae4.png


#5 Charles

Charles

    Needs Life

  • IPS Management
  • 9,040 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:59 AM

PS Regiment is actually one of our clients who is on our internal QA team and he knows first hand that testing does indeed occur :)

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
charles.warner@invisionpower.com

 

Please do not PM me but feel free to contact me by email.


#6 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:00 AM

So why not release it to these live boards as with every other product release prior to allowing customers to download? Invision tell us that doing so is part of their QA process, so why didn't it happen on this occasion?

#7 MadMcardle

MadMcardle

    Needs Hobby

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,543 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:03 AM

So why not release it to these live boards as with every other product release prior to allowing customers to download? Invision tell us that doing so is part of their QA process, so why didn't it happen on this occasion?


I can confirm we have receive Alpha Builds which we can then go and test freely on whatever we want and then we report any bugs for the next alpha release. That continues until we have a good build which can be released to the public.

Obviously we try and eliminate as many bugs as possible but some will slip through. This is software design in a nutshell :)

Signature_zpsf0723ae4.png


#8 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:10 AM

That's not what I asked though? The release process of every other update recently has seen it released to the company forums before it's released to customers - why didn't that happen on this occasion?

And to be totally honest, all of this is missing the point - the 2.5 release has some major bugs in it, many of which are pretty obvious, so if it was tested then surely questions need to be asked as to how these bugs slipped through.

No amount of justification will change that fact - it's actually worrying that following negative feedback on the product the only response so far has been justification of the testing, rather than any sort of acknowledgement of the problems customers are facing with this release, apology for that fact or explanation as to why the release wasn't the best and what is going to be done to make sure the next release isn't equally as bad.

#9 Charles

Charles

    Needs Life

  • IPS Management
  • 9,040 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:25 AM

I'm not justifying anything :) ... yes Blog has some bugs and it's very regrettable and we are nearly done with a maintenance release to address them. I was simply answering your question on if it was tested or not and indeed it was and it's unfortunate that these issues got through.

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
charles.warner@invisionpower.com

 

Please do not PM me but feel free to contact me by email.


#10 bfarber

bfarber

    RBT-KS

  • IPS Management
  • 28,648 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:31 AM

Our company forums not being updated until after release was an oversight. We are constantly refining our QA processes and this was identified internally already, and flagged to ensure it doesn't happen again. We do make mistakes, try as we might not to. We also try to learn from those mistakes to avoid repeating them.

Blog 2.5.1 will be applied to the company forums prior to release.
  • Dll, TheRevTastic, Marcher Technologies and 1 other like this

Brandon Farber
Development Manager / Senior Support

If it sounds like fun, it's not allowed on the bus!

php5_zce_logo_new.gif     

Invision Power Services, Inc.


#11 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:33 AM

Our company forums not being updated until after release was an oversight. We are constantly refining our QA processes and this was identified internally already, and flagged to ensure it doesn't happen again. We do make mistakes, try as we might not to. We also try to learn from those mistakes to avoid repeating them.

Blog 2.5.1 will be applied to the company forums prior to release.


If only Charles has posted that to start as this conversation may have taken a very different tone and may have painted invision in a much more positive light than it has (imo).

#12 Michael

Michael

    Meet Jay

  • +Clients
  • 19,587 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:14 AM

If only Charles has posted that to start as this conversation may have taken a very different tone and may have painted invision in a much more positive light than it has (imo).


You came into this topic with a very attack-oriented tone ("Was it tested?", "So does anyone at Invision want to come clean?", "What went wrong?"). It's natural that one would try and defend such attacks. Charles answered each specific question you asked, and did so in a very polite manner.

All software has bugs. I've been around this product line for years and this release is not the disaster you are making it out to be.
  • TheRevTastic and Marcher Technologies like this

Contact Me: Email · Facebook · Twitter · Google+


#13 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:01 PM

Sorry but that is simply untrue - he answered one question 'was it tested'. He didn't answer any other of the questions at all - specifically the one about the QA process of putting new releases onto the company forums prior to releasing to customers. He also flatly refused to acknowledge any problem until asked specifically to do so, and was defensive from the off.

I'm a paying customer, I'm perfectly entitled to post into a feedback thread with negative feedback about a botched release which bypassed the at least one key part of the QA process and has caused me considerable time to get into a usable state as well as annoying my customers.

For me, Brandon's response clearly highlights the shortfalls in Charles' posts back to me, and if I were in a similar position with one of my customers asking similar questions I'd certainly not be defensive in the way he was. There is clearly a problem with the blogs right now, the bug reports show that, Brandon has admitted to an error in QA, so all Charles had to do was put his hands up, be honest and to coin a phrase 'come clean' and there would have been no issue.

Better still of course, Invision as a company could have been more pro-active in it's customer service, admitted to the QA error and bugs up front and told it's customers what was being done about it..

#14 Mister Blonde

Mister Blonde

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 259 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:15 PM

DII, I'd like to push you towards nearly every software/hardware release in the last 10 years. None have been 100% and a number of patches are put forward until it's 99.9% working (because obviously you can't have it always 100%). Every new feature provides new bugs, every new bug provides a new patch. Standby for patches is all I can say.

#15 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:22 PM

There are bugs and there are bugs, some are acceptable - you don't see me complaining about bugs in the gallery/forum etc, but the blog is different the bugs are major in some instances and glaringly obvious enough to have been sorted prior to release in others. Brandon has already admitted there was a problem in the QA and that it wasn't released here first (where the majority of those bugs would surely have been picked up), so I think I'm making a legitimate point.

#16 Andrej

Andrej

    <?php define("Me"); ?>

  • +Clients
  • 1,036 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:27 PM

There are bugs and there are bugs, some are acceptable - you don't see me complaining about bugs in the gallery/forum etc, but the blog is different the bugs are major in some instances and glaringly obvious enough to have been sorted prior to release in others. Brandon has already admitted there was a problem in the QA and that it wasn't released here first (where the majority of those bugs would surely have been picked up), so I think I'm making a legitimate point.


Bfarber have said that it was a human mistake.

. We do make mistakes, try as we might not to. We also try to learn from those mistakes to avoid repeating them.

Your feedback was heard, and you were replied to.

I don't know why you're repeating your point.

#17 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

Because I'm being lectured by people about testing, software bugs etc etc - why shouldn't I respond to them? By all means if Invision want to close the thread I'm more than happy for them to do so though.

#18 Robulosity2

Robulosity2

    Needs Serious Help

  • +Clients
  • 1,984 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:04 PM

Because I'm being lectured by people about testing, software bugs etc etc - why shouldn't I respond to them? By all means if Invision want to close the thread I'm more than happy for them to do so though.


Um no, you weren't lectured.. You were explained this is our process, it's not perfect but were constantly trying to find ways to make it as close to perfect as we can.

You however, keep beating a dead horse

#19 Dll

Dll

    Advanced Member

  • +Clients
  • 479 posts

Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

Yes, that's what it must be you're absolutely correct.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users