19 replies to this topic

[DianaGale]

Is there any way to view message threads in a "tree" as opposed to a flat list? For example:

http://boards.ancest...es/2684/mb.ashx

or

http://genforum.genealogy.com/corbin/

Diana

[Wolfie]

It was removed starting with v3.2. Here is a quote from the IPS blog entry that states this:

We are also going to be removing some select features that are a bit antiquated. Specifically the linear+ and outline views will be removed in IP.Board 3.2 as these two functions are relics of the beginning of the Internet and have really outlived their use. We realize a handful of clients may use these features but the vast majority do not.

You can read the entire entry here:
http://community.inv...t-expectations/

[DianaGale]

Too bad. Of all the features I'd want in my forum software, that one is at the top of the list.

Thank you for the speedy reply.

[Gee]

vBulletin still has linear+ and outline views. Do we have a developer that can put them back in 3.3?

[Wolfie]

vBulletin still has linear+ and outline views. Do we have a developer that can put them back in 3.3?

vB 4 is essentially vB 3 just with more code stuffed in and more bugs. It's like comparing a 2012 Honda Pilot with a barely running 1975 Ford Pinto that happens to have a feature that is no longer available.

[Gee]

Wolfie; Your assessment may (and maybe not) be correct with regard to the automobiles. However, even vB 4 and our previous 2.x and even 3.1 had this capability. It may be antiquated; but there are several recent posts asking for this type of capability in the board.

IPB is a leader in providing board software; But from the stand point of “the user experience”, not all users are as sophisticated as most of the IPB power users. vB still recognizes and caters to this aspect.

Software should (unfortunately) cater to the lowest common denominator and not all ‘casual’ users are sophisticated and/or in need of all the wonderful aspects and features IPB has to offer.

Simply; this should be a feature that the board owner can re-activate if so desired. After all, you still have to look out the front window of either of your autos if you’re going to go down the road, regardless of which type of radio you have or don’t have in that car!!

[bfarber]

I would argue that the unsophisticated users are far more confused by a "threaded" or "tree" approach to viewing topics than a linear/"flat" approach used by modern forum software. As a power user, even I get confused when I reach threaded topics on (typically very very old) message boards.

[Gee]

Bfarber; I would think that someone like yourself that has near 25 thousand posts on an IPB board would be totally frustrated, disgusted and certainly confused with a board that is threaded and/or very (even very very) old.

However, that does not change the fact that your best competitor still offers this option. Further, the so called ‘free’ boards have it and as such this is “ ” what is out there in the world of non- IPB users. (Yes that world does exist!)

I’m simply asking for the option to be able to ‘have it’ if I so desire. From other posts here and the number of views on this thread, it seams to be a consideration of many others as well.

The threaded and/or tree view might very well be antiquated or confusing (to some); but it should NOT be extinct from the leading provider of board software!

[Rimi]

I hate that view. It makes no sense to me at all.

[Atti]

Personally, the threaded view confuses the hell out of me. I can't use a forum which doesn't use the "flat" look by default. Like all software, IP.Board has to get with the times, which is exactly what they've done by cutting out old extinct features. Saves extra code having to be run and makes your site load faster. I think IPS were right to remove these features. What's the point of keeping them there for an amount of users you can count on one hand?

[Alfa1]

The fact that vbulletin has stood still for many years, has caused that vb still has this feature. If there will ever be a vbulletin rewrite, there is a good chance that they will remove this feature, as practically no one uses this and there was some talk about this. It makes great sense that IPS has removed this bloat feature. Bloat in the sense that very few sites use it.

I find threaded view very user unfriendly.

[Gee]

Shigure: PW Atticus; I understand that this type of board view may not make any sense to you or may be confusing or even unfriendly (Alfa1).

And, Alfa1, I did not realize that the this was such a “bloat”

All of you are, and I am as well, very active on the board(s).

However, to a virgin of any BBS, all the wonderful ‘features’ that IPB has to offer can be extremely over-whelming to that newbie.

Perhaps a developer can put it back (so to speak) if IPB will no longer offer it. I feel certain that there are others that would like a copy as well!

[jmwhitco]

Threaded discussion listings were a requirement when we started using IPB years ago, when no other board I could find (that we liked) had this option. Our University LMS did not have this option, so we went with IPB. I was in the process of upgrading from 2.2.2 to 3.3.2 and I discovered there are no longer threaded discussions. I checked and our current LMS does have threaded discussions. So, unfortunately, we'll likely be looking to move our forums back to the University LMS. I'm testing an upgrade to 3.1.4 to see if that will work for a while, but it looks like we'll never upgrade past 3.1.4, and when I'm no longer comfortable running the old version, we'll leave IPB.

[Gee]

Wolfie; bfarber; Shigure; Atticus Web Design; Alfa1;

Here is testimony from jmwhitco that says the same thing myself, DianaGale and a few others in other threads here are saying:

Just ‘cause you few believe that this old view is non comprehensible to yourselves does not mean it is not desirous in a set of features by others. And any rumor that vBulletin is going to ‘drop it’ is just that; rumors.

Honestly, if there was not such a financial investment in IPB already, I would switch for just this reason.

Being on the forefront of BBS software is fantastic – however, capturing a broader market share with what might be considered archaic by a select few does not mean it needs to be excluded, discontinued or dropped for any such reasons.

If the competition sees fit to continue an offering, I would think IPB would compete rather than try to dominate with a lack of desirable features.

Can’t someone simply ‘put it back’ or re-develop it for the current release???

[bfarber]

I'm afraid it's not as simple as just "putting it back".

We do not develop our feature set based around what our competitors are doing. We develop our feature set based around the needs of our clients, and while of course there are always some clients who will have a use for each legacy feature, we have to move forward based upon the "big picture" and the needs of the many.

We are certainly not out to cause any consternation or ill feelings. We don't remove features to upset any of our client base. We simply have to weigh in support and development overhead of every single feature we develop, and sometimes, as is the case with the old "threaded view", we determine that a legacy feature is no longer worth the investment in a modern product such as IP.Board.

[Gee]

bfarber;
Understood & fair enough. What section for prompting a third party developer would I post in if I wish to have it developed for me.
and;
Thank you.

[bfarber]

No problem.

If you wished to make an open request to the community, I would recommend posting here: http://community.inv...ation-requests/

If you wished to contact someone advertising custom services work, there is a directory here: http://community.inv...m_services.html

[msg]

For me thread feature is best to follow a conversation.

However i must admit that flat view with quote can be consider as a good solution as long as users use the quote correctly. The board that will comeout with the best quote implemention will win lots of business.

What i found the most confusing in flat view, the reply to a comment can be locate fare from the original post. So unless you are deply involve in the conversation it will be hard to follow. Espacially when multiple users are participating. By the time you answer ten other have made comments.

What could be the best, if we could click on a post and ask to list the conversation ( similar to what outolook 2010 do) this way we could have flat view and we could extract a conversation from a specific point in time.

When two people are talking we have a linear dicussion, When we have mutiple person in a discussion it is no longer linear. So the challenge is how do you represent a non linear converstion so it make sense at the individual level........

[Hatsu]

With quote and notifications you could follow the conversation between you and an individual. You can set notifications that you get one if somebody quotes a post you made. For clarification: You actually don't have to quote the whole post, just use quote and keep the parts you are interested in and the other person will get a notification (if he set his notifications).

Edited by Hatsu, 10 June 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Wolfie]

Wolfie; Your assessment may (and maybe not) be correct with regard to the automobiles. However, even vB 4 and our previous 2.x and even 3.1 had this capability. It may be antiquated; but there are several recent posts asking for this type of capability in the board.

That's like Microsoft repackaging XP but with a couple of new features, then calling it XQ and people saying "But XQ offers this option, why don't you?" Because XQ is running software made a decade ago just with more stuff added in. It hasn't been rewritten to be more efficient, take advantage of newer technology, etc.

The only thing that I miss from the additional views is Linear+, which would add the initial post of the topic to the top of each page. Other than that, the tree view is, to be quite blunt, a horrid idea that somehow gained some popularity. I don't see how anyone could possible like it. In order to read all the posts of a topic, you have to click on a lot of links and you start to lose track of which ones you've read or forgot to read or whatever. Not only that, but sometimes topics tend to go "off topic" and with a tree view, it's more likely to happen and could even happen where you have 2, 3, 10, etc different off-topic conversations going on. If someone reading flat view happens to respond to several posts at one time, chances are their reply will be overlooked (or make 'no sense') in tree view.

It's actually much much easier to read the posts sequentially, because you can see it all from start to finish and then reply. I do wish that it was possible to have Linear+ added back, but not as a topic viewing style option. More of a "see first post on each page" setting, so it only adds the first post if desired, otherwise it leaves it's hidden.