23 replies to this topic

[The Guy]

I am suggesting this as a future application that you guys could build when you guys move into the v4.x era, no sooner than later, so I am not looking into this like really soon project. So if people do so happen to support this topic, please do not demand it. It was just a thoughtful idea. Plus, i do think it was suggested a long time ago, so if for some reason that I may have missed it or it WAS an application, don't be afraid to shoot me down for it.

Again, before I continue though, I'm sure this idea has been brought up before. And I'll support the staff for whatever reason if they say no because as of right now they already have top-of-the-line applications such as Nexus and Blog etc.


My idea for IP.Mail

It would be really cool if you guys made a indvidule app where users may implement a E-Mailing System that can be easily accessed by users and administrators. Unlike cPanel where they use 3rd party Apps like Squirel Mail etc, IP.Mail has its own perks and professtional design that can be a slave or master application.

URL Example to Application for Admins

https://domain.com/forums/admin/mail/app=mail&module=login.php

URL Example for Online Users

https://domain.com/forums/index.php?app=mail&module=login

Administrators Interface

Admins needs to reach out to their user base by letting them know on such occations like Billing, Newsletters, and well anything really important. So instead of manualy using all these other path ways to intergrate your server to your mailling system, why not make a complete application based on your mailing system.

For example you can deticate your Billing Team to [email protected] and have their e-mails be setup where whom will get it by forwarding to a active billing agent that can respond to them soon using a queue system. Perhaps make it where tickets are made on Nexus it will forward to an agent's e-mail so they can respond much faster.

Also IP.Mail can be used for users to sign up for their own e-mail account on your forums. And with IP.Nexus you can intergrate it where users can purchase a e-mail slot that goes directly to your site.

Plus, you can make custom designs on what your newsletters will look like to your subscribers and/or customers.

A complete interface so that its a all-in-one managed area where Administrators can add/disable e-mails.

Users/Customers Interface

Some Users or customers whould be so pleased to have a mailing system that is there where they can store e-mails and be apart of something unique. Of course the PM system has always been there for us. But of course what about those who would like to get so in deph with the concept of easy access or even community access.

I see two perks for this would work like this....

Perk 1. Within the forums a user can be sent an e-mail from another user like this:

From @ChadA
To @SindeyDx2x2
Subject: Hey this is pretty Cool
Hey Sindey, I'm likeing this new IP.Mail application from IPS, we should use it more.
--------------------------------------------
From @SindeyDx2x2
To @ChadA
Cc/Invite @Mattinc, @DestroyerBK, @TotalCoolDude
Subject: RE: Hey this is pretty Cool
I completely agree, Chad. I also invited our friends to this e-mail conversation.

Notice I put a "@" as the preffix. That can be the user to user mailing system within the mail system. And with outmail it will be something like [email protected] The suffix is plain e-mail to another person off site that is not registered to the site.

People may not use your mailing service if they do not want to, they can just use PM, but within the PM system people that are identified with a preffixed "@" is a e-mail registered user.

Perk 2.

As many may say, there are several thousands to even millions of different mailing services out there. Make your community unique with using the option to sync your notifications and everything to your phone etc. This will also help in a way so that admins may send out newsletters to their users faster than ever and recieve feedback from you. They even may want to talk to you about your feedback, this way your guranteed a patton about your inovative idea to their site. Or perhaps discuss your resume and application to becoming staff in complete privacy.

Whatever the case may be, it can be something very useful.

Anyway, that is just an idea of it, you may twist a few things around if you want. That's my idea of "IP.Mail."

Thanks!

[Rimi]

Reminds me of this.

http://community.inv...ns-for-Vectura/

Remember when Mark used to type like this?

http://community.inv...d-on-ipvectura/

I don't (cuz I wasn't around), but it's always fun to look at old posts.

Be nice to me. :">

[Charles]

That's not something we would do as on today's web there are much better solutions.

[The Guy]

Remember when Mark used to type like this?

http://community.inv...d-on-ipvectura/

I don't (cuz I wasn't around), but it's always fun to look at old posts.

LOL That made my day;

That's not something we would do as on today's web there are much better solutions.

I agree completely.

Just thought it would be just saved as an idea for when your guys are "freed up on time." Or Rikki just completely board.

[Hardes Inc.]

1. I like the idea a lot.

2. IP.Mail can be an application or service free of IPS, where users can create an e-mail from the official site of IPS this: [email protected], which would be good, because if all sites using IPB are applying "IP.Mail" can be a disaster, it better be a free service offered by IPS.

It is my opinion

[Wolfie]

http://community.inv...61-bouncy-mail/

[The Guy]

http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/3161-bouncy-mail/

That was never finnished.

[Wolfie]

That was never finnished.

From what I know of it, it progressed to the point of working for the most part with some unfinished parts, but then stuff happened in his private life that has more or less taken up a bit of his time. You might try contacting him to see if he plans to finish developing it, because I'm sure many people would love to have something like this.

[Jυra]

Bouncy Mail would have been great for spreading a domain around to people that may not know of a site and the perfect reward for members. Much better than bigger avatars, member titles, etc. It's a great shame it never was finished.

[Alfa1]

Email bouncing has become a very important issue. Sending out email with the standard php function like IPS does is a really bad practice and literally means you are breaking the law and sending out illegal spam.

As a result many websites are blacklisted by email providers, causing their email not to arrive. This often stays under the radar as its dependent upon users accurately reporting the issue and webmasters recognizing what's going on. The dynamics are often not understood by webmasters. Blacklisted websites are often blacklisted by one or more email providers, but not all. This makes it harder to recognize that the cause lays with the sender.

www.dmarc.org and a proper handling of bounced email are needed to avoid breaking national and international laws.

[Wolfie]

Email bouncing has become a very important issue. Sending out email with the standard php function like IPS does is a really bad practice and literally means you are breaking the law and sending out illegal spam.

That's like saying it's illegal for a company to call you when you're on the "do not call list" and have asked them to contact you with certain information.

If someone joins a community and the TOS either require the member to accept emails or they have chosen not to disable admin emails (or even more so if they choose to enable it if it's disabled), then it's not illegal. How is using the PHP mail function bad practice? Do you realize how many companies use it? Do you seriously expect everyone in the world to stop using it because you think it's bad practice? I honestly don't see how you can say it's breaking laws when it's not. If someone is a citizen of a country and has their site based within a country that prohibits the use of email features, then that's that the fault of the product but instead the responsibility of the administrator to find ways to remain within the law.

Also, if it were illegal, many (if not most) web hosting companies would prohibit or severely limit it's use when the admin isn't following a obscenely strict set of rules to insure that laws are being obeyed.

[The Heff]

Email bouncing has become a very important issue. Sending out email with the standard php function like IPS does is a really bad practice and literally means you are breaking the law and sending out illegal spam.

Nonsense.

The function you utilise to send an e-mail is inconsequential, it's the reason why a mail is sent that may or may not contravene a local law.

I can send mails using a PHP function or I can use credentials to log into a mail server. Regardless, I can still use either method for sending legitimate mails or malicious mails.

[Wolfie]

If someone is a citizen of a country and has their site based within a country that prohibits the use of email features, then that's that the fault of the product but instead the responsibility of the administrator to find ways to remain within the law.

Correction, "then that's NOT the fault", used wrong word there.

[Alfa1]

That's like saying it's illegal for a company to call you when you're on the "do not call list" and have asked them to contact you with certain information.

If someone joins a community and the TOS either require the member to accept emails or they have chosen not to disable admin emails (or even more so if they choose to enable it if it's disabled), then it's not illegal. How is using the PHP mail function bad practice? Do you realize how many companies use it? Do you seriously expect everyone in the world to stop using it because you think it's bad practice? I honestly don't see how you can say it's breaking laws when it's not. If someone is a citizen of a country and has their site based within a country that prohibits the use of email features, then that's that the fault of the product but instead the responsibility of the administrator to find ways to remain within the law.

Also, if it were illegal, many (if not most) web hosting companies would prohibit or severely limit it's use when the admin isn't following a obscenely strict set of rules to insure that laws are being obeyed.

The ToS have no validity when it comes to local and international law. These laws overrule a ToS.
I know it sounds like an outrageous statement to say that most forum webmasters are breaking the law. Yet, this is the truth. I'm not just coming from out of nowhere making these statements.
Some years ago I noticed that my big board its emails were not all arriving, and heard similar reports from other webmasters. I then found out about email blacklists that email providers keep and started to investigate. After digging through the information it turned out that email providers were following laws like the CAN-Spam act and many other laws in various countries and on international level. These laws govern how bulk mail should be sent. Sending out bulk mail without meeting the conditions set forward by these laws, means that you are sending out illegal spam.

This is pretty harsh, but if you think about it; how else can email providers legally refuse your email to your users?
It would be the same as a postal service refusing to send your physical mail.

Anyway, I started digging into this and created functionality to correctly manage bounced email. I wrote an article on how the issues around bounced email which is available here:
How to keep your board from getting blacklisted as a spammer

Most of the recommendations in this article also apply to IPS software.

Since writing the article I have resolved email blacklisting and problems for various big boards.
I'm glad that the parties that struggle the most with these issues have formed www.dmarc.org to make this issue a whole lot easier for those that implement the DMARC functions.

Nonsense.

The function you utilise to send an e-mail is inconsequential, it's the reason why a mail is sent that may or may not contravene a local law.

I can send mails using a PHP function or I can use credentials to log into a mail server. Regardless, I can still use either method for sending legitimate mails or malicious mails.

In essence you are correct. You can use the PHP function to send email while meeting the criteria that the laws and email providers have laid out. But out of the box this is not the case. Webmasters need to take action and add various functions in order to send out email within the criteria set by law. If not, there is risk of getting blacklisted as a spammer.

[CallieJo]

Anyway, I started digging into this and created functionality to correctly manage bounced email. I wrote an article on how the issues around bounced email which is available here:
How to keep your board from getting blacklisted as a spammer

And thanks to you, many have been educated on this subject over the years and many forums have been helped.

[Wolfie]

The ToS have no validity when it comes to local and international law. These laws overrule a ToS.

You should consult a lawyer. Be sure to ask them to explain in detail to you about a few things including (but not limited to) disclaimers, waivers and contracts. Now before you go trying to blast me as being wrong, show me by example by challenging Microsoft on some of their EULA's that all but strip you of your right to even exist. When you come out of court as the winner, then I'll believe that a ToS has no validity. Oh and, I think you're misunderstanding things, just putting that out there.

[Alfa1]

You should consult a lawyer. Be sure to ask them to explain in detail to you about a few things including (but not limited to) disclaimers, waivers and contracts. Now before you go trying to blast me as being wrong, show me by example by challenging Microsoft on some of their EULA's that all but strip you of your right to even exist. When you come out of court as the winner, then I'll believe that a ToS has no validity. Oh and, I think you're misunderstanding things, just putting that out there.

If I put into my ToS that by joining you give me permission to commit an act prohibited by law against you, then that still does not make it legal. Simply because the law defines that this is illegal.
Of course a ToS has validity, but statements in a ToS that are in conflict with the law do not overrule the law. Its the other way around.
You can put in your ToS whatever you want. Email providers will still blacklist your email if you do not comply to the law and their requirements. And they are within their legal rights to do so. The laws I am referring to are: Anti-spam act, Can-Spam act, related laws, EU anti spam directives , international law.

I deal with lawyers and contracts every week btw.

[Wolfie]

If I put into my ToS that by joining you give me permission to commit an act prohibited by law against you, then that still does not make it legal. Simply because the law defines that this is illegal.
Of course a ToS has validity, but statements in a ToS that are in conflict with the law do not overrule the law. Its the other way around.
You can put in your ToS whatever you want. Email providers will still blacklist your email if you do not comply to the law and their requirements. And they are within their legal rights to do so. The laws I am referring to are: Anti-spam act, Can-Spam act, related laws, EU anti spam directives , international law.

I deal with lawyers and contracts every week btw.

Okay then ask them about ToS and legalities. Using the example you gave, then more times than not it would still be a criminal act. However, what I was saying is that contracts limit your rights. If you're on the "do not call" registry, that only applies to certain circumstances. If you enter into an agreement with a company, that contract might have you agreeing that they can give/sell your information to partner companies and that you grant those companies permission to contact you with offers. Suddenly, you're getting solicitation calls but they're all legal. As for your links, the EU doesn't apply to me, you apparently don't know what 'international law' is (it's not simply knowing laws of other countries when those laws don't apply to you), one of the links doesn't have the content visible and of the one that does, it includes an exception to the rule, thus, an agreement can be in place that permits the sending of emails even if the recipient didn't want to get those emails. For real dude, despite what you obviously think, it's not illegal for a site to send out emails, unless they are to recipients who never agreed to those emails. So your claim that all sites are breaking the law is simply false. You really should read the material which you are basing your claims on. What you're doing is the same as saying that when you sign up for the 'do not call' registry, that if someone calls you (a business) then they are breaking the law and that in and of itself isn't true.

Sending out email with the standard php function like IPS does is a really bad practice and literally means you are breaking the law and sending out illegal spam.

[The Heff]

In essence you are correct. You can use the PHP function to send email while meeting the criteria that the laws and email providers have laid out. But out of the box this is not the case. Webmasters need to take action and add various functions in order to send out email within the criteria set by law. If not, there is risk of getting blacklisted as a spammer.

Again, I am going to disagree.

Out of the box, this software will only allow e-mails to be sent by registered members, administrators or as part of a defined process (registrations, notifications, etc). There's nothing I had to do to comply with any local laws.

Now if an admin sends out mails that irritate and annoy users then yes, they could risk being marked as spam, however that is again down to the admin and nothing to do with the software.

The problem here is not the software, it is the admin.

For info, I use the PHP function to send mail and my mails are successfully delivered to all major e-mail providers. This has been true of other software used too (phpbb, SMF, MegaBBS, VB, you name it). No problems whatsoever.

[bfarber]

This topic is starting to deviate from the original purpose. The original topic was about creating a new application that allows admins to issue email addresses to their members which the members can then use.

Handling of bounced emails and changing how email is sent from IP.Board to comply with various laws is a different subject altogether, and probably better suited for a new topic.