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#161 Wolfie

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:21 AM

For example, the proper and consistent URL structure I asked about. There isn't any reason why each section of a site shouldn't behave consistently the same. For example, IPB in root install. If I'm in the /downloads/ directory, all the action for downloads happens there. Any users could go to /downloads/ and get to the downloads front page. So what if you are in a search engine and go to a thread - you'll see /topic/1234-topic-name appear. Going to /topic/ does not bring you to the forum root. You have to somehow know go to /forum/ which disappears when a topic appears. (And how would a user know whether it's forum or forums or talk or board, etc.?)

So what you're saying is, to have something like this?
somesite.tld/forums/123-abc/
somesite.tld/forums/topic/8675309-jenny/
somesite.tld/files/
somesite.tld/files/666-evil/
somesite.tld/files/file/321-contact/

Or like this?
somesite.tld/forums/123-abc/
somesite.tld/forums/123-abc/topic/8675309-jenny/
somesite.tld/files/
somesite.tld/files/666-evil/
somesite.tld/files/666-evil/file/321-contact/

But while nobody can prove to you that any search engine will rank a site better by having a consistent directory structure, I think it is very logical to infer that if humans will have a hard time with the inconsistencies, a machine that doesn't understand "context" like humans do will probably fare even worse.

Keep in mind that computers don't really 'think' but go based on what they are programmed to do. So they can look for patterns and find patterns faster than a human and can also retrieve data more accurately. I get what you're saying, but just because a human might have a hard time with something doesn't mean that a computer would. If it's designed to handle those 'hard times' then it won't have much of a problem with it. Just thought I'd point that out.


 

I can say one thing I've always wanted to be able to do was tweak the fURL's for IP.Downloads.
 
I have a category for videos and games, as an example.
 
Instead of using a URL format such as /files/file/123-foogame, I'd like to have something more along the lines of /games/download/123-foogame and /videos/download/321-foovid.

Unless you're going to have something like /games/forums/ and /games/blog/ then wouldn't it be better to do /download/games/ and /download/videos/?

P.S. To those who have sent me personal messages, no I won't share the other forum software that increases traffic. I'm bound by agreements, and I'm not a lawyer. Not to mention this is not the appropriate venue. However, it is public information and you could probably deduce it with some research.

If you're talking about MS forums, then I'm sure I know what site you're talking about. But since you're in an NDA, you wouldn't be able to confirm if I'm right or not.

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#162 esquire

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

So what you're saying is, to have something like this?

somesite.tld/forums/123-abc/
somesite.tld/forums/topic/8675309-jenny/
somesite.tld/files/
somesite.tld/files/666-evil/

.....
Keep in mind that computers don't really 'think' but go based on what they are programmed to do. So they can look for patterns and find patterns faster than a human and can also retrieve data more accurately. I get what you're saying, but just because a human might have a hard time with something doesn't mean that a computer would. If it's designed to handle those 'hard times' then it won't have much of a problem with it. Just thought I'd point that out.
 

 

 
 
Yes for the most part. Another good example is getting /forum/members/ to just be /forum/ and /members/ no matter where you install as they are members of all IP applications. I agree with you about computers not having a hard time - but as you said, "If it's designed to handle those hard times." We have no idea whether Google, Bing, Yahoo, Dogpile and any other search engine programmers included in the algorithm information how to specifically identify IPB sites as well as (i) what IPB FURL markers are for IP Content and how to treat them or (ii) that members don't belong just to the forum but to all applications. Without specific direction, the algorithm will use whatever generic rules it has to apply and it's anyone's guess as to the result. Given that IPB has within it's power to control how URLs and FURLs are created, why not move the system towards something that even a child can understand and take most of the guesswork out of the search engine to figure out how IPB works specifically? Can't guarantee any results but certainly seemed to me to be a prudent approach. 



#163 Wolfie

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

Yes for the most part. Another good example is getting /forum/members/ to just be /forum/ and /members/ no matter where you install as they are members of all IP applications.

That actually boils down to be a 'server related' issue, in that the admin is deciding where to install the core product. To have /forum/ and /members/, they should install to the root and not to /forum/.
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#164 Aiwa

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

That actually boils down to be a 'server related' issue, in that the admin is deciding where to install the core product. To have /forum/ and /members/, they should install to the root and not to /forum/.

This is exactly what i've said before... 

 

We all know there is a major difference between a /folder and a /furl... 

 

I'm not familiar enough with rewrites to know if you can strip a /folder out of a URL and proceed with a /furl after...

 

This really only becomes an issue when you use a product other than IP.Board... If you are using IPC, Blog, or Nexus and want a community focus, I see making those the default app and installing in root the best option...


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#165 Wolfie

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

I'm not familiar enough with rewrites to know if you can strip a /folder out of a URL and proceed with a /furl after...

It can be done, either by editing the templates file or via .htaccess, but why bust your chops trying to re-invent the wheel but doing it in a much more difficult way? That's how I look at it. Setting a different app as the default is also another issue to consider, as you pointed out. So yeah, more trouble than it's worth, definitely.

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#166 esquire

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:28 PM

That actually boils down to be a 'server related' issue, in that the admin is deciding where to install the core product. To have /forum/ and /members/, they should install to the root and not to /forum/.

Thought of that too but here's the complication - stock install then put the forum in the /topic/ directory instead of the /forum/topic/1234-my-thread-here or /forum/topic-123-my-thread-here etc. It took me a long, long time to just figure out how to change the system - with many thanks to you guys and Marcher. Then there was changing the very bad IPC URLs that eventually I could shorten by making IPC the default application. (I'm still not sure why I can't change my home page to a static page and get my articles to show using the articles template.)
 
I guess the point is that what many would consider a very common install is a ton of work out of the box that involves some very funky and undocumented furlTemplate.php modifications even if you install board in the root. Wolfie - I agree with you. It all can be done but out of the box it Shouldn't be this hard.

#167 Wolfie

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

Thought of that too but here's the complication - stock install then put the forum in the /topic/ directory instead of the /forum/topic/1234-my-thread-here or /forum/topic-123-my-thread-here etc. It took me a long, long time to just figure out how to change the system - with many thanks to you guys and Marcher. Then there was changing the very bad IPC URLs that eventually I could shorten by making IPC the default application. (I'm still not sure why I can't change my home page to a static page and get my articles to show using the articles template.)

I think you're getting confused.

If the forums app adds 'forum' to all the URL's, then there wouldn't need to have some parsing to strip 'forum' from the URL when viewing members because it wouldn't be added to begin with. That would only be an issue if someone installs everything to a folder named 'forum', then they would have '/forum/members/' and such. It can be confusing at first but once you figure it out it's relatively simple to know the difference.

So, for an app to always have something as part of the URL that is unique to that app (forums, members, gallery, etc), then adding to the URL for the function being used (topic, image, profile, etc), that's not all that hard to do and depending on what the developers think, might be worth adding in as the default. So if you installed the software to the root of the site, you'd have somesite.tld/forums/topic/123-hello/ and somesite.tld/members/profile/666-demon/ as URLs. But if you install to a folder named 'forums' then you'd have somesite.tld/forums/forums/topic/123-hello and somesite.tld/forums/members/profile/666-demonas URLs. First one is easy enough to setup, the second would be an issue caused by a bad decision on where to install the software.

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#168 blair

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:06 AM

:blush: Holy crap, I just realized who "Sjv" is. Missed your sig before. Welcome to IPB Mert! I see they've given you a special red badge, I hope they gave you the number to the red phone as well.

 

I've been absent from IPS for a while, as I had planned migrating to another platform. Long story short, it didn't work out, and I'm hoping to stay with IPB. I have to say I'm really impressed with the improved quality of the community since I've returned. IPS has always been receptive of input, especially regarding SEO. It's refreshing to see some new people who really know what they are talking about. This is very encouraging.

 

@ Wolfie no matter what you think of vBulletin, vB3 + VBSEO is probably the golden era of forum SEO. They enjoyed a huge SEO advantage that really hasn't been equalled to date.


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#169 Matt

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:05 AM

Thanks all for the suggestions so far.

 

Please understand that if we don't implement a suggestion it's likely that we're waiting for 4.0 to make larger changes. I want to build 4.0 from the ground up with SEO at its core. I want to overhaul the way we route links and allow for better customisation. I want to rewrite the templates to ensure we're using best practises, etc. There's quite a lot we do want to do for 4.0 so please keep the ideas coming.


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#170 Tsvi

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

Thanks all for the suggestions so far.

 

Please understand that if we don't implement a suggestion it's likely that we're waiting for 4.0 to make larger changes. I want to build 4.0 from the ground up with SEO at its core. I want to overhaul the way we route links and allow for better customisation. I want to rewrite the templates to ensure we're using best practises, etc. There's quite a lot we do want to do for 4.0 so please keep the ideas coming.

 

Is there a chance that in 4.0 you'll stop using tables in your templates and change everything to DIVs ?

That would be great. Because it's just the standard today ;)


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#171 bfarber

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:47 AM

 

Is there a chance that in 4.0 you'll stop using tables in your templates and change everything to DIVs ?

That would be great. Because it's just the standard today wink.png

 

I don't necessarily agree with this personally (a table is still very much a valid semantic HTML tag when displaying tabular data), however the exact specifics of every tag we will use in a new skin we haven't developed yet hasn't been determined just yet. :)


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#172 Rimi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

smile.png According to Bing the fact that the Board Index doesn't have an h1 tag is a big deal. Just contributing. smile.png

 

EDIT: :) I might also add that both Xenforo and Vbulletin have h1 tags on their board indexes. I wonder how significant this is? :)


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#173 NewRockRabbit

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:53 AM

I want to build 4.0 from the ground up with SEO at its core. I want to overhaul the way we route links and allow for better customisation. I want to rewrite the templates to ensure we're using best practises, etc. There's quite a lot we do want to do for 4.0 so please keep the ideas coming.

Thank you Matt - I think this is my all time favourite IPB post ever - can't wait for 4.0 hyper.gif  (and thank goodness we've moved away from the stupid and pointless 'IPB SEO is crap / brilliant' debates we used to have in the past).



#174 NewRockRabbit

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:01 AM

smile.png According to Bing the fact that the Board Index doesn't have an h1 tag is a big deal. Just contributing. smile.png

 

EDIT: smile.png I might also add that both Xenforo and Vbulletin have h1 tags on their board indexes. I wonder how significant this is? smile.png

 

Any chance this could be added to IPB 3.4 - perhaps with H1 text being editable via ACP?



#175 Rimi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

 

Any chance this could be added to IPB 3.4 - perhaps with H1 text being editable via ACP?


:) It shouldn't be difficult at all and I'm sure you could just use the Community Name setting. The only issue would be whether or not it looks good. :)

#176 NewRockRabbit

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="NewRockRabbit" data-cid="2320889" data-time="1350316879"><p>&#160;</p> <p>Any chance this could be added to IPB 3.4 - perhaps with H1 text being editable via ACP?</p></blockquote><p></p><br /> smile.png It shouldn't be difficult at all and I'm sure you could just use the Community Name setting. The only issue would be whether or not it looks good. smile.png

 

On 2nd thought, probably best done as an individual template hack so that it 'looks good'. Everyone's design requirements are going to vary too much for a one size fits all H1 tag. I'll do this pronto, for some reason I forgot that the index page didn't have an h1 tag - thanks Makie Sasaki.



#177 Rimi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

:) I think I'll add it in as well to see if anything changes. I can't believe ips missed that though. It's why I'm asking if it really matters or not. :)

#178 esquire

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:09 PM

I looked at the template I am using - no H1 or H2 tags on the forumhome. Forum titles are all in H3 and H4. Really very poor but this can be changed in the template. Just a pain to do. This turned out to be a great thread. I'm very excited by and look forward to what's upcoming.




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